After the my review of the youngsters of Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna additionally the solutions they gotten, We checked once again from genealogical users about Gwladus Ddu. While it is correct, because the multiple genealogists suggest, that from the lack of chosen proof for some reason, the newest label of one’s mommy off Gwladus Ddu need to continue to be ‘unknown’, I found you should not change my personal conclusion one their mommy was Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.

Vat

One next origin on the subject of the people is the following conceptual regarding ‘Leaders and you will Queens regarding Britain’ an authoritative book, written by Oxford College Force, web page 106:

‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, son out-of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you will Marared, daughter regarding Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter of Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’

To prove that it’s not just myself that believes very, i would ike to offer you to definitely genealogist that is an effective enthusiast off Sharon: “I am very keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s guides. As they commonly strictly biographical, I feel warmer depending on her work to ‘complete the blanks’ (because of the amount of browse she needless to say put in their own books), than in in reality citing particular genealogical present that we came all over during my search (I am aware everyone come across supply that way). In order to those who have not even realize their own really works, I would recommend it very very, especially if you need to get an end up being for just what lifetime try including 800 years ago.”

Their particular research to have ‘HBD’, ‘Falls this new Shadow’ and ‘The Reckoning’, carried out through to the introduction of the net, is it really is an excellent

Pursuing the concerns presented from the Beth, Suzanne and you may Sandy in particular, We set about researching the new identity away from Joanna’s mom (known hereafter, to possess easier site while the ‘Clemence’ perhaps not ‘Clementia’) compliment of an affair to the so you can-be-king John. This action turned out to be a whole lot more complex than I would personally has believe you can! Immediately following running up many blind alleys, generally as a result of looking to get together again the new chronology of just one towards almost every other, I’ve compensated on which employs. Really don’t claim that the thing i wrote try decisive in almost any profile otherwise form, therefore the the fact is we will probably never be yes of their particular label.

(a) The fresh illegitimate Joanna, daughter out of “Clemence,” was undoubtedly born out of wedlock –– as it is proved from the Honorius III’s decree saying their own genuine within the April 1226, though rather than bias for the queen otherwise arena of The united kingdomt (we.e., giving their own no-claim to this throne). The fresh decree, that has been transcribed regarding the fresh, unpublished Sign in from Honorius III (Reg. 13, fol. 122 ), states inter alia one “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” hence, I am informed, means “King John regarding The united kingdomt, when solitary , fathered you because of the a single lady.”

It indicates Joanna can have started produced zero after than 1189 whenever John hitched Isabella of Gloucester. Their mom, “Clemence” are probably French or Norman, since the research throughout the patent rolls away from John’s leadership shows that Joan are introduced off Normandy so you’re able to The united kingdomt during the December 1203, to prepare getting relationship in order to Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (find less than). Joanna died inside Feb 1237.

(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, of the Isabella out-of Angouleme (hitched to John within the 1200 in the age a dozen!), was given birth to during the Gloucester on 22 July 1210 (see the Tewkesbury Annals on the Moves Show, vol. thirty-six.i, p. 59; the latest Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; additionally the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143) this link. Here is the Joan which next hitched Alexander II away from Scotland and you may she passed away from inside the 1238, certain months immediately after Joanna (this might take into account some of the frustration clear between the one or two women). She left no hassle by the Alexander II.